06 Family Law Attorney
What is it Like Being a Family Law Attorney
On this episode of the Unboxing Careers Podcast, we unbox the career of a family law attorney.
Guest: Jonathan D. Steele is a seasoned family law attorney and Partner at Beermann LLP, renowned for his robust approach in managing sensitive family law matters such as divorce, child custody, and paternity. He has been recognized as one of the top 10 lawyers under 40 by the American Institute of Family Law Attorneys and one of the top 10 family law attorneys under 40 by the National Academy of Family Law Attorneys.
Jonathan at Beermann LLP
More ways to connect with Jonathan Steele
Listen: Spotify | Apple Podcasts | Amazon Music
What We Discuss:
The day-to-Day Job Functions of a Family Law Attorney
Advice for High School & college Students Interested in Law
Standing Out as a New Graduate
Personality Traits for Success in Law
Managing Online Profiles and Social Media
Misconceptions About the Legal Field
Key Family Law Takeaways:
Family law attorneys handle a range of cases, including divorce, paternity, and prenuptial agreements.
Lawyers spend a significant amount of time in court, either physically or virtually.
Skills such as public speaking, writing, and research are crucial for success in the legal profession.
Confidence and respectfulness are important personality traits for lawyers.
Misconceptions about lawyers include the belief that they are solely focused on making money and that they don't care about their clients.
Building a strong network and developing marketing skills are essential for lawyers.
Maintaining a professional online presence, particularly on LinkedIn, is important for career advancement.
Finding a career that you love and are passionate about is key to long-term happiness and success.
Full Interview:
Greg
Welcome everyone to the Unboxing Careers Podcast where we shed light on what different careers are really like so you can choose a career you'll really love. Today we are unboxing the career of a lawyer with Jonathan Steele.
But before we do, let’s talk briefly about unboxing thoughtful gifts. At ThoughtfulCollection.com you can shop from a wide selection of curated products you can feel good about, helping you express friendship, gratitude, and love.
The next time you need to, don't just gift. Gift thoughtfully at www.ThoughtfulCollection.com.
All right, I'd like to welcome to show Jonathan Steele, family law attorney and partner at the law firm Beermann LLP. Jonathan, welcome to the Unboxing Careers Podcast. Thank you for being here.
Jonathan Steele
Thanks for having me. It's a pleasure.
Greg
Very good, thank you for making the time. So, Jonathan, let's start with this. You practice family law is one of the things you do as an attorney. So why don't you break down for the audience, what does a family law attorney actually do?
Jonathan Steele
It could be a range of things. We do divorce cases, we do paternity cases, we'll do prenuptial agreements, postnuptial agreements, orders of protection, stalking orders, and then within each of those sort of subsets of law, there's either a litigation path or there's sometimes a more collaborative mediation path.
I tend to be towards the litigation side of those things.
Greg
Very good, which means you're in the courtroom a little bit more than the mediation side, correct?
Jonathan Steele
Nowadays there's a mix of Zoom and court, but I'm either in a virtual courtroom or I'm in a physical courtroom.
Greg
All right, very good. And getting into the law profession. So is it something you've always wanted to do? Was it something you kind of gravitated to as you were going through education? When did you kind of figure out you wanted to be a lawyer? And I guess the second part of that is when did you decide you wanted to be a family, go into family law as a practice?
Jonathan Steele
So my grandfather was a lawyer. That was inspiring to me. I wanted to sort of follow in his footsteps if I could. And then, you know, as a kid, you're told be a lawyer, be a doctor, and then the fancy cars and homes will follow. I don't know that that part has come true yet. I'm waiting on that. then I, you know, I started as a clerk when I was in high school for a family law lawyer and sort of just latched onto him through summers of high school, summers of college, and then all throughout law school.
Greg
So is that how you got into the family law side of it? Appealing to it was doing the clerk job or was it what your grandfather did?
Jonathan Steele
He didn't do family law. It was the clerkship that translated into the career that I'm in now.
Greg
Very good. And if we look at typical day to day job functions, week to week, I know you're going to have a balance between meetings, obviously courtroom research. I'm sure you have some staff that does that for you, but can you break down either day to day or week to week, whichever really makes more sense, what your days or weeks actually look like from a practicality standpoint.
Jonathan Steele
Sure. I'd say the majority of the time I have court in the morning. We usually start around nine, nine thirty. I'll have at least one court appearance. As I mentioned, we're doing a lot of zoom now, so it's actually a little bit easier to be in more than one place at the same time. As strange as that sounds, you know,
Not too long ago, it would be at the Daly Center. We'd try to be in two places at the same time. And that was a little bit more tricky trying to hop on elevators and get to two courtrooms at the same time. Um, and then, you know, the, if it's a normal, um, non -substantive court appearance, I'm usually back in the office around 11. Um, and then I have meetings. Um, sometimes I report record podcasts. I'm a guest on a number of those, and then court resumes again, usually in the two o 'clock range. And, you know,
I have, for whatever reason, I've fallen into a niche recently of trying a lot of cases. So that trumps the whole day schedule. Normally, if I have a trial, it's all day, every day. I've got one of those coming up next week where it's going to be a 9 a .m. to 6 p .m. five days a week for two straight weeks. So that throws everything into a shuffle.
Greg
Now when you're in, I've got two questions here, but when you're in that, you've got a trial coming up, I'm assuming it's just all hands on deck. You mentioned nine to six or eight to six every single day. Are you refining yourself? Do you do a pretty good break of breaking away from work at six o 'clock when you go home and you separate that, or are you having dinner and then you're back on the computer doing some more prep for the trial that's coming up?
Jonathan Steele
It depends who you ask that question of. If you ask my wife, there's no separation. And there's some truth to that. It's hard to turn that off. Nowadays, clients want on -demand access to their lawyers in real time. I saw a read receipt on your text message, so why haven't you answered me, even though it's 1130 on a Sunday night? So it doesn't stop. I don't have real good boundaries.
I try to more so now because I've got two small kids, but especially in trial mode, to be at your A game, really have to sort of give up a lot for that. It's a sacrifice.
Greg
Very good, and we're gonna we're gonna talk about personalities a bit later But I've got a question because you said you do a lot of zoom now and I'm not sure what your personality is But I've got to imagine if you're in a divorce case I can imagine sometimes those things get pretty contentious. Alright, so is it harder to get mad over zoom versus in person because you don't have to you don't have that emotional feel pulled I don't know if you ever get mad like that, but is it harder to pull those emotions out over zoom?
Jonathan Steele
it's sort of the opposite. You know, I, I don't emote very often. it's hard to get me riled up. It happens, but very rarely. but what I see as far as like parties in the courtroom go, they are more animated. They are less behaved outside of the physical courtroom. It's a different experience when you're standing next to someone that has a gun. You tend to be a little bit more respectful to the court and to the judge when somebody's standing next to you with one of those. When you're in your living room in your shorts, people seem to be less respectful to the process, less respectful to the judge, and they emote significantly more.
Greg
Interesting this is so funny. I would have thought it would have been opposite. So that's interesting I do want to talk about work -life balance. I mentioned you're a partner for those that don't know you can explain what a partner is But you don't normally just become a partner right you work and that's like a promotion on that side Whole new ballgame at that point. So I want to talk about work -life balance, which you dabbled into a little bit So maybe if you could give the audience kind of the work-life balance on both sides one as a partner and then one as an associate when you're coming up.
Jonathan Steele
Sure, yeah, as I mentioned when I started as a clerk, I've done every role up the totem pole to where I am now. And I'd say the time commitment, the work -life balance, for me it hasn't changed a whole lot from associate to partner. It's just a shift of what I'm doing with my time.
As an associate you're doing more of the research and the drafting as a partner you have more of an obligation to The expression is make it rain a little bit, you know, you have to originate business there's an expectation that you're bringing in a certain amount of business and then you know realizing on your business, so you're billing hours just like you would as an associate but there's more of an obligation on you to generate money and originate clients.
Greg
And I think this is probably a little more applicable to you than say like an IP lawyer or whatever, but I've spoken to some therapists and one of the challenges with a lot of therapy is breaking. We talked a little bit about breaking your personal life from your work life. I think as a family law, you know, whether it's divorces, whether it's something with child protective services, whatever, where there's, there's real, there can be real heartbreak from someone's side, whether it's your client or someone else's.
Is that difficult for you to kind of separate the emotional side of those things or are you pretty good at that or are there tips that you've incorporated over the years that have just kind of helped you separate that a little?
Jonathan Steele
You know, it's tough to do. Divorce in particular is a heavy subject. And a lot of times people get drawn into petty fights and they fight over things that at the end of the day don't matter and so those don't weigh on me a ton. I don't let money weigh on me a ton, but when you're fighting about people's kids and people's safety, that's heavy. Whether you win or lose, those things have some heavy consequences.
I'm not the most emotional person, which is a gift and a curse. It can be helpful in the litigation context. I'm told sometimes I have the bedside manner of barbed wire, which isn't great. Sometimes clients need a hand to hold. They need a shoulder to cry on, so to speak.
Greg
That seems rough.
Jonathan Steele
The lawyer is usually not the right person for that. And so I try to connect people to therapists, life coaches, resources that are better able to help them in those situations. Because I just recognize my own weaknesses as, you know, that's not my lane, that's not my training. So I try to, you know, connect them where they should be. So it can be a very emotional practice
You know, as a lawyer, if you take home your cases with you, so to speak, it can weigh on you. There was color in my hair at some point, so it's gone.
Greg
All right, let's transition a little bit to high school. So those in high school some like you kind of may have known they want to be a lawyer Maybe they don't know what what field they want to practice, but they know they want to be a lawyer others It might be interesting to them. They might see something on TV and they might watch an old movie the Rainmaker, you know, But they don't know that's what they want to do. So Either on both sides what advice might you offer to someone who's maybe in a high school — this could be a skill that they can learn now that you know will come in handy for them as they practice law, regardless of the type. It could be a class, it could be a club, really anything at all. Anything you might be able to advise the younger high school age people on.
Jonathan Steele
Yeah, it depends what school you're at, obviously, but some schools offer debate clubs. Some schools offer, you know, theater programs. And a lot of what you do as a lawyer is theatrics, especially in divorce law. It's theater. You know, if you're trying a case, you're, you're persuading a person you trying to convince someone to do something. And a lot of that is presentation. A lot of that is public speaking. A lot of that is theater. I'm repeating myself, but it really is. what separates a good lawyer from a bad lawyer sometimes is just presentation. So if there are public speaking classes, if there are debate classes, if there's some form of theater where it's extemporaneous speaking or improv.
All of those are assets in a courtroom. All of those are assets in any field of law that you find yourself in. And those also just flesh out whether you're, whether that's what you want to do or not. Not everybody does want to be a lawyer. And, you know, if you try the public speaking route and you say, gee, I hate this. It's making me turn beet red and sweaty. And, you know, maybe that's not for you, but maybe it is. And maybe you're just looking for more transactional than litigation and there are those kind of lawyers also.
There's a need for every kind. There's a need for research lawyers, there's a need for drafting lawyers, and then there's just purely transactional. So I wouldn't necessarily discourage people from law entirely just because they don't like public speaking. It's a scale, it's a muscle, it's something that, you know, even the people that try cases every day, they get nervous, you know, it's part of the process. It makes you sharper, it makes you think on your feet. And some of those skills you learn in a debate class, in an improv class, they carry over into a lot of professions, they carry over into job interviews. So they're, it's sort of a Swiss army knife of a skill set.
Greg
So I thought you might've said debate, the theater, that's a really good advice. I never would've thought you would've said theater, but it all makes 100 % sense. And I would say I used to be terrified of public speaking. Hated it. Something in the back of my mind that I kind of always liked and then became a public speaker. But you're right, it's a skill. You learn it. COVID hit. I've regressed. I've completely regressed, but great advice. Jonathan, let's shift a little bit to the college side of things.
I would say most people who are going to school are probably in law school. They could be doing the first couple of years, kind of getting so trying to figure out maybe what they want to do, but they might have probably, probably have more of an inkling for what they want to do. College, you have a lot more opportunities here. So you've got clubs, you have organizations, you can probably make connections a little bit easier because you're slightly older. So whether it's clerking somewhere, specific advice that you might offer to someone who's in college, either for those things I mentioned, or still kind of figuring out what type of law they may want to do even though they might be in law school.
Jonathan Steele
A few things. I think there are certain subject matters that you can take classes about that help you hone some skill set that's helpful for law school. think if you take some classes about criminal justice or psychology, certainly understanding how the mind works is an asset when it comes to cross-examination of witnesses, understanding criminal justice system and how the court system is set up. That's helpful. Developing some sort of mentor or clerkship is pivotal.
I think you learn more through hands-on experience than you ever learn in law school. you know, especially if you are developing a relationship with a law firm or an attorney in the city that you want to go into practice in, you're making connections, you're meeting lawyers, you're meeting judges that you're gonna be practicing with for all of your career. And so that part of your journey is, it's pivotal.
And so, you know, think putting a lot of emphasis on trying to find meaningful connections. You know, it's easy enough to, now I'm on summer break and so just want to hang out and do nothing. But that's really your opportunity to try to develop a relationship with, you know, whether it's volunteering at a legal clinic or trying to get an externship with a judge.
Also, I think a lot of colleges offer mock trial, which is a great, great opportunity. I've judged a couple of them recently at the college level, and I'm judging one at the law school level next week, actually, on Monday. I was so impressed by these college students that put on a mock trial, and it really was a ton of theater, and they better than a lot of the litigators that I have tried cases against. So I was just so impressed with them. And it's valuable because you get lawyers that come in and they judge these things.
You get judges sometimes that come in and they judge these. And so you're getting just real actionable feedback from people that do this all day. And so it's just sort of a win -win. You're getting to try to see if you like what you're doing, but you're also getting feedback in real time on what you're doing from practitioners. So I think, you know, it's something that I didn't do in college and maybe I should have, but it's certainly something I would recommend to people is to look into mock trial.
Greg
That's great. Mock trial always fascinated me and I've actually never looked to see how it operates. So I'm assuming it's just what it sounds like a mock trial. Do you guys, whether you're judging or I'm they have instructors kind of watching over them making notes and taking grades and things, do they give them feedback at the end of the day for the next day? Is it all done in one day? How does that mock trial system actually work?
Jonathan Steele
I think it was a two day process and I was a judge for the last day of it. So I was there for about six hours and there were two different trials that I presided over. And so they were each about four hours and I think they get, you know, they're sort of like grades or review cards after the fact.
You can advance to the next level of it. You you start at like a regional level, you can advance all the way up to a national level. And you know, it bodes well for your next level of schooling. So if you are like a mock trial champion at a national level coming out of college, it looks really good to an incoming law school. So it's very helpful.
Greg
I think so that's really cool and I think that's one of the things where you might think you want to be a litigator or something like that and you're studying you're like all this all looks great and then you get up there and do it. might be a time to realize hey maybe this isn't for me after all. was ironically I was speaking with someone the other day who three years of school journalism major wanted to be an editor. She joins the local or she gets into her as the editor or of her college newspaper whatever and she's doing, and she's like, I don't want to do this anymore. And she changed majors. She was out of there. So I think it's really cool. It's a really cool system or experience you could do there.
Jonathan Steele
You know, it's, does help to flesh that out if that's something that you want to do or not do. But, you know, I just want to reiterate that you may have been super uncomfortable and sweating through your clothes on day one, it's normal and you know on day two may be a wholly different experience and a year later maybe you may be a litigator and wonder how you ever were nervous to begin with. So try not to be discouraged just because you were nervous. I think that's normal. I think that all good litigators start out like that and good litigators are they remain nervous throughout their career. So it's normal.
Greg
Yeah, very good. I would say if you're nervous, you care, right? That's generally what you would go for there. So great advice, Jonathan. I want to shift a little bit to those new in the workforce now. So you've got 10 resumes sitting in front of you. Less cared about the formatting here, unless there's something very specific you look for, but you've got 10 equal candidates coming out of law school. All qualified, obviously.
What would you look for that would set them apart? I think you might have mentioned one or two things already, but what are some of those things that a new graduate could do to kind of get maybe a head up on someone else?
Jonathan Steele
I think as a partner, what you look for in an associate is a work ethic. So the last thing you want to be doing is coming into a job interview asking, what's the vacation policy? Do I have to work through lunch? How many days off do I get? Can I work remotely? You'll figure all that out later. What you want to be asking more is, you know, when can you start and how do you second chair a trial and things like that. But as far as a resume goes, what you're looking for is experience and just sort of like a willingness to learn. And that's hard to glean from a resume that may just more so come from an interview. But we're looking for work ethic.
We're looking for drafting skills. We're looking for research skills. So as far as like earlier discussion about some of the courses you might take in college or I don't know that you really have a choice over what you take in high school but whenever you have an opportunity to take voluntary things drafting writing writing courses are pivotal you know it it really does separate a good associate from a less good associate is their writing skills so putting a focus on your writing, if you're able to demonstrate to an employer that you're good at writing, that you're good at researching, developing a proficiency with the research tools like Westlaw and LexisNexis, those are all really important skill sets to have. And the work ethic, you know,
Maybe the generational thing right now, it's hard to find people that are just willing to put in the time. And I don't know how that's reflected on a resume, but it needs to come across when you're applying for positions is that I'm willing to serve my time, I'm willing to put in the work. So I don't know that that's answering the question very well because it's hard to come across what we're looking for in a resume, but that's the best answer I can give you, I think.
Greg
No, I think the answer was great, Jonathan. So, like I would just tie that back to those extracurriculars we talked about. Were you in, I mean, high school, you could do this in college as well, but were you in theater? Did you do a clerkship, right? Did you do an internship one summer and the other two summers you took off, like you mentioned, right? So I think there's ways you can see that in a resume. So I think you answered it perfectly.
I want to spend a second on personalities because you no doubt, deal with all types, both clients and other lawyers that you deal with, whether it's mediation or trial. Is there a specific personality or personality trait you think a person should possess or will have the most success or happiness as a lawyer if they possess this particular trait or personality, or is it really just plucking out of a hat?
Jonathan Steele
I think, and this is a hard one because it's maybe it's learned, maybe it's innate, I'm not entirely sure, but confidence is very important. You know, the way that you present yourself is half the battle. If you are confidently mistaken about the law, you may very well win that hearing that you're standing in. As opposed to being a little unsure and correct, confidence just goes a long way.
And so I think that's a personality trait that is defining of a good lawyer. And it may just be something that comes over time. You know, as I mentioned, people start out nervous and they find their stroke or they become more confident as they do things over time. And so I think that's, I don't know if it's a personality trait so much as a skillset, but it's something you learn a little bit by watching, you you learn a little bit by second chairing trials with other lawyers and then you learn by doing so you can't be afraid to take your first deposition to do your first hearing to call your first witness. You know, those are this it's a muscle and you are building it as you're doing it. So I think confidence is important and I think just being respectful is another.
I don't know if that's a personality trait either, but it goes a long way for a number of reasons. You have to be respectful to clients. Obviously, you have to be respectful to judges. But you get one first impression with judges. You get one first impression with employers, with opposing counsels. And you
It's very important to be honest with them. It's very important to be respectful to them. And it's a delicate balance because you don't want to be considered a pushover. And you don't want to come out too aggressive and disrespectful to lawyers that have earned their stripes, that have been doing it for a long time. And you're coming in as like a first year and you don't want to be overly aggressive. there's a delicate balance to play there.
I think being respectful, think being honest, I think being confident are all very important traits for the legal profession.
Greg
Very good. think the respectfulness part of it, I think it's becoming more of a personality trait. We're, it's very polarized, very polarized time right now. Those things getting green in younger people, think a little bit more as well. So great advice. This one's newer. You talked about generational thing. So what would you advise younger folks? And I say younger, this could be college, new associate, you know, say young twenties, down to the high school about online profiles, because I've got to assume if you're going to court with someone, you're probably looking to see, I mean, you're probably going to do a Google search at least on something if it's a first time lawyer. What would you advise for people to do with their social profiles? Everything locked, step away, hidden, ditch them. What would your, maybe not advice, but what's your personal approach on it?
Jonathan Steele
You know, it's tough because what I'm going to say is like asking people to give up a limb. I tell clients in a divorce case, get rid of social media. And it's asking a lot. And I get that up until maybe a month ago, I had no social media. I'm sort of a privacy geek. And so it just it irked me the whole thought of it. But, you know, I recognize that's not realistic. And so people are not going to get rid of their Instagram and their Facebook. And OK, fine. But just be
Be cognizant of what it is you're posting. You don't necessarily have to post every intimate detail of your life. You don't necessarily have to post pictures of you out drinking because you gotta know that once you've posted it, even if you take it down, it's out there. Maybe there's an archive of it. Maybe Google has scraped the photo somehow and it's hard to get these things back.
And as I mentioned, you get one reputation. So, you know, it's hard to fix a reputation. It's much easier to protect one. So I would be cautious about, you know, posting certain photos. I would be cautious about posting certain divisive, politically charged content. And I would also just on the positive side of things, would be
Building up a LinkedIn presence, that goes a long way professionally. It's very important nowadays to start building connections through LinkedIn. It can be a very valuable resource in terms of finding jobs. just, again, even there on LinkedIn, just being mindful of what it is you're posting is very important.
Greg
Very good. how about, so we kind of wind down here, misconceptions about your job. I'm sure there's a million of them. So what would you say are some of the most common misconceptions about your career?
Jonathan Steele
You know, there's a general misconception or just sort of jokes about lawyers in general that we take a lighthearted way and that's fine, but.
The general misconception is that lawyers are just out to rob people blind and to take their money and to just bill crazy fees to everybody and fleece every client that walks in the door. And there are some like that. And unfortunately, they're, you know, the few bad apples give everybody a bad name. But not everybody is like that. A lot of us are trying to help people. We went into this line of work to help people. Even in family law, where we are trying to help people through probably the hardest time they ever go through in their lives. know, everybody, I think, starts out the practice of law with good intentions.
Some people veer off that path that, the practice of law is filled with temptation and it's easy to go down the wrong path and harder to stay on the right path. But I think it's a common misconception that lawyers are just raking in money hand over fist from clients, mercilessly bailing them and that we don't care about people. I think more often than not, that's just not, that's far from reality. But because there's one or two that are doing that, that's the misconception. So that's certainly one of the bigger ones.
Greg
Well said. Last question about your career. guess technically not. Second last question. What do you wish you knew sooner?
Jonathan Steele
That's a good question. You know, what they don't teach you in law school is how to be a lawyer, as strange as that sounds. They teach you how to think. They teach you to think critically. And so, you know, the fact that I was able to get into the law practice at the age of 16 gave me such a huge leg up on my contemporaries. You know, people ask me, how is it that you've only been practicing for 12 years?
Well, you know, technically true. I've been an attorney for 12 years, but I've been in the field of law since I was 16. And so I think that, you you learn by doing, you learn by watching. And so I don't know that I could have learned that much sooner. I think, you know, there's some child labor law concerns there had I learned it all that much sooner. But I think
Maybe if I could pick one thing to learn sooner, it's the marketing aspect of being a lawyer. That's a hard thing that I think even lawyers in their 50s and 60s are still figuring out, still struggling with trying to learn social media marketing and search engine optimization and all of that. So that's certainly something they don't teach you in law school is how to build a book of business.
So had I been able to learn that at the age of 16, that would have been awesome.
Greg
So maybe that's one of those electives that someone takes when they're in law school. Takes a couple of marketing glasses or branding glasses or something and then tie that together. So might be one of those options there.
Jonathan Steele
You know, a nephew of mine is in a social media course, you those didn't exist when I was in school. And there's certainly a value to that marketing aspect of it.
Greg
Very good. And Jonathan, can't cover everything with you. What did I neglect to ask you? So I'm sure there's something about your job, your career, something that I've neglected today. Anything you could think of?
Jonathan Steele
Hmm. I think you did a good job. I think you covered everything. you know, I think it's, it's just important to find your stride as you know, what, what you really want to do and to not get discouraged. If you go the wrong direction, there's always time to pivot and go a different direction. I think it's rare to, for people to really love their jobs. I'm fortunate enough to really like what I do as an attorney.
You know, it's important to try to find what you like as your job and, you know, the saying that if you love what you do, you don't work a day in your life. It may be cliche, but I think it's true. You know, I am here 12 hours a day sometimes, and I like what I'm doing, so it doesn't feel like it's working unless it's the summer in Chicago and it's 100 degrees in my office. But other than that, if you do like what you do, it's hard to put the computer down at night even when you're home with the family because you're enjoying it. So I think it's very important to try to find the right path for you and it's not gonna be the same for everybody.
Greg
Well, so that's really well said because I would say the one thing, probably one of these misconceptions about lawyers, you've mentioned kind of the stereotype of, you know, the do we cheat them and how type stereotype that people joke around about. I think the other one that you see is the very straight-laced, they don't laugh, they don't smile, right? They just kind of move on. They don't like their work. You never hear of, I love my job as a lawyer. And I think it's really refreshing to hear you say, I love what I do. Right. And that's, that's the goal. Right. We want to figure out something that's passionate for us. So I think it's really well said.
Jonathan, I'm going to remove you from the law field now and you've got to pick a different career. What are you choosing and why?
Jonathan Steele
That's a tough one. I feel like I was born to be a lawyer, so it's really hard for me to remove myself from the law field. I don't know that I'm good at much else. It's hard for me to answer that. I was not expecting that question at all, so kudos to you for making me think on my feet. That's part of the job. I'm not creative. I'm not artistic.
Maybe...therapy as much as as strange as that sounds there there's a huge therapeutic side of the divorce practice that You know, I don't love it at the moment. And so I'm happy that I don't have to go that direction But if I couldn't do the law thing There's a therapeutic element of what I'm doing. So maybe I'd go that direction
Greg
It's a good one to have. Plus you can work on the couch and out of a 112 degree office at your own leisure as well. I was gonna let you go. There is one more question I thought of though which I want to mention before. I'm old and I forgot. Reading. So I think it's the one thing with like if you're an IP lawyer you're reading a lot. How much are you doing reading in as a family law? I mean you're reading casework, you're reading contracts.
Like how much of reading is part of your job?
Jonathan Steele
A lot. My boss calls that cheating, that I spend a lot of time reading the rules. I spend a lot of time reading case law. And less often than I would like, it matters. A lot of times in family law, the judges are ruling on what their gut tells them, and it's what feels right, less what the law says. But I have found that knowing the rules, knowing the rules of evidence, knowing the rules of procedure in the case law is a huge advantage in a courtroom.
And it's less, you know, I'm not the loudest person in the room ever. I'm not the most theatrical person in the room ever. But I generally know the law pretty well. And that's reading. And that comes from reading the cases, reading the rules. And I'm sure my eye doctor would like me to do a little less of it, especially at the computer. But I spend a lot of time reading.
Greg
You're the Bill Belichick of family law, right? So you just described it to a T. All right, Jonathan, thank you so much for your time today. It's pleasure having you. If someone wants to reach out, either ask a question, maybe they're listening, they're a parent, they might need some help. What's the best way for someone to reach out to contact you?
Jonathan Steele
I've got a website, www.Steelefamlaw.com. It's got all sorts of contact information for me, all my social handles and emails, phone numbers, however somebody's comfortable reaching out. I'm happy to answer any questions for anybody in school looking for a mentor or just a conversation. So I'm available.
Greg
Very good, we'll link that in the show description as well. So if anyone's looking, feel free to pop down there and we'll link that over.
Jonathan Steele, everyone. Jonathan, thanks for your time.
To find out more about Jonathan, be sure to check out that show description like I just mentioned.
I hope you enjoyed today's episode. If you'd to unbox your career with us, we'd love to have you. And until next time, be kind to one another.
(Interview transcription provided by Riverside.fm. May not be 100% accurate.)
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